About the committee: Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration—Study on the Conditions Faced by Asylum-seekers at Roxham Road (November 25, 2022)

Committee membership

Committee members: At a glance

Conservative Party of Canada

Top party issues

The Conservative Party of Canada (CPC) has criticized the government for what it perceives as inaction on irregular migrants crossing at Roxham Road.

The party has voiced concerns over the Roxham Road access point, the Safe Third Country Agreement with the United States, and what the CPC alleges are broader strains on the immigration system as a result of administrative burdens incurred through operations at Roxham Road.

Recent party activity

• Nov 10 – Twitter: States that government "gatekeepers," rather than immigrants, are standing in the way of new houses being built (Redekopp)
• Oct 21 – Blog: Stated the government had bad policies, which cost $500 million and that allowed tens of thousands of uncredentialed foreign nationals to use an illegal border crossing at Roxham Road (Rempel Garner)
• Oct 19 – Oral questions: Inquired about the identity of the owner of the land at Roxham Road and how much the contract is worth (Paul-Hus)
• Oct 18 – Debate: Compared current Roxham Road border crossing to border crossing enforcement when CPC was in power with no need to spend a lot of money (Viersen)
• Oct 18 – Twitter: Suggested the government was not being transparent about the leasing of land near Roxham Road from a Liberal Party donor (Paul-Hus)
• Oct 5 – Q-859: Asked for specific details regarding contracts signed by the government since Jan 1, 2020 related to the Roxham Road border crossing (Morrison)
• Sept 27 – Oral questions: Stated that the Liberals have falsely claimed that the immigration system is both fair and delivering value for money when considering the longest immigration backlog in Canadian history and the management of Roxham Road (Garner)

CIMM members

Brad Redekopp
(Saskatoon West, Saskatchewan)
Vice-Chair of CIMM; Associate Shadow Minister for Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship

Topics of interest:

• Family reunification and welcoming newcomers
• Temporary Foreign Workers Program
• Backlogs and delayed processing times

Tom Kmiec
(Calgary Shepard, Alberta)
Shadow Minister for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

Larry Macguire
(Brandon-Souris, Manitoba)

Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner
(Calgary Nose Hill, Alberta)

Other active members

Pierre Paul-Hus
(Charlesbourg-Haute-Saint-Charles, Quebec)
Former Shadow Cabinet Minister for Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

New Democratic Party

Top party issues

The New Democratic Party (NDP) commitments include working with Canadians to support refugees in building successful lives and new homes in Canada while ensuring the industry is regulated by the government.

The party has criticized the government for the backlog of asylum seekers and ongoing problems at the Roxham Road border crossing as the world experiences an unprecedented refugee crisis.

Recent party activity

• Oct 18 – Oral questions: Inquired about the Liberal Party secretly spending $28 million to lease land near Roxham Road rather than suspending the Safe Third Country Agreement (Boulerice)
• Dec 13, 2021 – Oral questions: Stated that migrants seeking refuge in Canada are "not illegal, just desperate." Argued that rather than withdrawing from the Safe Third Country Agreement with the United States, the Liberals are encouraging leased land near Roxham Road to house asylum seekers (Boulerice)
• Feb 17, 2021 – CIMM: Spoke on the issue of asylum, stating there is basically no asylum measure since people cannot apply for asylum unless they are in Canada (Kwan)
• Feb 6, 2020 – Debates: Indicated that it is never illegal for refugees who are in fear of their lives to make a claim in Canada, however the safe third country agreement says refugees cannot do so at border crossings and therefore suggested the solution of terminating the agreement with the United States (Garrison)

CIMM members

Jenny Kwan
(Vancouver East, British Columbia)
Caucus Chair; Long-standing Critic for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship; Critic for Housing

Topics of interest:

• Withdrawal from the Safe Third Country Agreement and Roxham Road
• Rights, safety and precariousness of Caregivers and other migrant workers
• Processing capacity and backlogs
• Extending the definition of family for reunification

Other active members

Alexandre Boulerice
(Rosemont-La Petite-Patrie, Quebec)

Randall Garrison
(Esquimalt-Saanich-Sooke, British Columbia)

Bloc Québécois

Top party issues

Bloc Québécois (BQ) has been extremely interested in the situation at Roxham Road, and the government's decisions and management of the border crossing.

The party, supported by Conservative and New Democratic Party MPs, introduced the motion to investigate the use of public funds to build facilities near Roxham Road at ETHI.

Recent party activity

• Oct 27 – Oral questions: Inquired about the U.S. Secretary of State's visit being used to push for the suspension of the Safe Third Country Agreement (Brunelle-Duceppe)
• Oct 27 – Twitter: Stated that at the current rate, there will be over 30,000 irregular entries into Roxham Road, which is an inhumane situation, and the government is making the Safe Third Country Agreement last (Brunelle-Doucette)
• Oct 19 – Oral questions: Criticized the government for its handling of Roxham Road, alleged that a Liberal Party donor received a contract for leased land near Roxham Road, argued that funds should be allocated to IRCC to process asylum seekers at regular crossings (Blanchet)
• Oct 18 – Oral questions: Stated the Liberal donor who received the Roxham Road contracts disclosed in committee that it was the government that insisted the contract clauses remain confidential (Therrien)
• Oct 7 – Oral questions: Urged the government to suspend the Safe Third Country Agreement in relation to Roxham Road, accused the government of fighting refugee advocacy groups in the Supreme Court over issues stemming from Roxham Road (Brunelle-Duceppe)
• Oct 6 – Oral questions: Advocated for more immigration powers to be granted to Quebec due to circumstances at Roxham Road (Brunelle-Duceppe)
• Oct 6 – Oral questions: Demanded a "tabling of complete, unredacted versions of all the contracts awarded in relation to Roxham Road since 2017" (Blanchet)
• Oct 6 – Oral questions: Argued that in 2022 alone, the RCMP intercepted 23,196 asylum seekers at Roxham Road when customs officers at regular land border crossings have dealt with 499 refugee claims (Michaud)

CIMM members

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe
(Lac-Saint-Jean, Quebec)
Second Vice-Chair of CIMM; Critic for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, Human Rights

Topics of interest:

• Processing delays and family reunification
• Suspending the Safe Third Country Agreement and irregular migration at Roxham Road
• Francophone immigration, including international students from French- speaking countries in Africa
• Quebec interests and protection of the French language

Other active members

Yves-François Blanchet
(Beloeil—Chambly, Quebec)
Leader of the BQ

Alain Therrien
(La Prairie, Quebec)
House Leader of BQ

Kristina Michaud
(Avignon—La Mitis—Matane— Matapédia, Quebec)
Critic for Climate Change, Youth, Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Liberal Party of Canada

Top party issues

The Liberal Party of Canada (LPC) commitments include strengthening family reunification and reducing processing times to increase immigration levels and build a fairer system and. They believe immigration is important for economic growth.

Their current focus is modernizing the Safe Third Country Agreement with the United States in order to provide a safe passage and access for asylum seekers.

Recent party activity

• Oct 27 – Oral questions: Stated closing Roxham Road is not the solution but the government is focusing on modernizing the agreement (Lalonde)
• Oct 19 – Oral questions: Stated the contracts pertaining to Roxham Road were awarded by public servants according to our principles and all the rules in place (Trudeau)
• Oct 7 – Debates: Debated that closing Roxham Road is not a good solution as it would move the problem elsewhere and the focus is on modernizing the agreement with the United States (Fraser)
• Oct 6 – Debates: Stated the attention is on working with the United States on a permanent, sustainable solution (Fraser)
• Oct 5 – Debates: When people come to Canada, the government makes sure to follow the rules and protect them at the same time, while supporting Quebec in their work with Roxham Road (Trudeau)
• Oct 4 – Debates: Roxham Road gives officials an opportunity to obtain identification documents from these asylum claimants and prevent dangerous crossings (Lalonde)
• Oct 3 – ETHI: Indicated that Canada proudly makes space for those who need refuge and it is an issue of concern that they have safe passage and safe access in ways that both protect them and make sure the border services are doing the job they need to (Saks)
• Sep 29 – Debates: The refugees are helping alleviate the labour shortage across Canada and have many examples of positive contributions made by refugees which contribute to investing in the necessary resources to resolve the situation at Roxham Road (Mendicino)

CIMM members

Salma Zahid
(Scarborough Centre, Ontario)
Re-elected Chair of CIMM; Chair of SCIM; Member of AFGH

Topics of interest:

• Health and safety protocols regarding COVID-19
• Gender equality
• Advocacy for Muslim women

Shafqat Ali
(Brampton Centre, Ontario)

Sukh Dhaliwal
(Surrey–Newton, British Columbia)
Chair of AFGH

Fayçal El-Khoury
(Laval—Les Îles, Quebec)
Member of the panel of chairs for the legislative committees; Member of AFGH

Arielle Kayabaga
(London West, Ontario)
Member of LANG

Marie-France Lalonde
(Orléans, Ontario)
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

Questions by members during question period

This document provides an overview of statements made by members of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons related to the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) mandate and the Roxham Road crossing during the 44th Parliament. These questions were asked during Question Period from September 20 to November 16, 2022. The following statements are samples of recurring questions.

Roxham Road and its humanitarian aspect

• Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) "Roxham Road is making permanent the smuggling networks that get rich off migrant families"
• Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) "The smugglers are the ones who take advantage of these families by taking their savings in exchange for getting them across at Roxham road"

Roxham Road and Quebec's immigration mandates

Yves-François Blanchet (BQ) "Is the prime minister allowing tens of thousands of people to come in through Roxham road because he knows that Québec will not be able to integrate them in French. Is he doing it on purpose? If not can this Safe Third Country Agreement be suspended immediately and can the immigration powers be ceded to Québec?"

Roxham Road and the Safe Third Country Agreement (STCA)

• Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) "How are the STCA negotiations progressing?"
• Kristina Michaud (BQ) "Instead of creating a parallel custom system run by the police, why not simply suspend the STCA so families go through real customs"
• Kristina Michaud (BQ) "The RCMP intercepted 23,196 refugee claimants at Roxham Road in 2022 alone. At the same time, 499 refugee claimants were processed through regular land border crossings. Border officers are dealing with 2% of refugee claimants, even though that is their job, and the RCMP at Roxham Road are dealing with the other 98%. Again, my question is simple. Would we not be better served at the borders if customs officers dealt with customs and police officers dealt with, say, illegal weapons trafficking, for example?"
• Stéphane Bergeron (BQ) "The U.S. Secretary of State will be meeting with the Prime Minister later today [October 27, 2022]. They will be discussing some very important critical issues, including the situation in Haiti, Ukraine, and Iran. They will also be discussing the issue of refugees in North America. Right now thousands of asylum seekers are crossing the border irregularly, without protection, at their own risk. People who need help are not to be received in this way. Will the Prime Minister discuss with the Secretary of State the suspension of the STCA?"

Roxham Road and contracting

• René Villemure (BQ) "Can the government reveal who they entrusted with taxpayer money at Roxham road?"
• René Villemure (BQ) "The government awarded 7 untendered contracts to two liberal donors"
• Alain Therrien (BQ) "The federal government is turning Roxham Road into a permanent facility and it's already cost us at least $500 million. The feds have signed contracts until at least 2027. Hotels and land and trailer rentals"
• Pierre Paul-Hus (CPC) "In January 2017, the Prime Minister invited the world to come to Canada via Roxham Road. The Prime Minister's invitation created some very lucrative opportunities for his Liberal friends. Radio-Canada reports that at least half a billion dollars has been spent simply managing Roxham Road in Saint‑Bernard‑de‑Lacolle. For example, he awarded untendered contracts totalling no less than $14 million to his friend Pierre Guay, a gentleman who, coincidentally, contributed more than $16,000 to the Liberal Party of Canada. Contracts like that, awarded by this Prime Minister, smack of corruption. Can the Prime Minister explain his actions?"
• Pierre Paul-Hus (CPC) "At the Ethics committee [on October 17, 2022] the Liberals tried to protect the winner of the untendered contract for a premise near Lacolle but the Prime Minister is refusing to disclose the secret amount and the identity of the owner of the property right at the entrance to Roxham Road. Can the Prime Minister tell us who owns the property at Roxham road and the have of the contract?"
• Yves-François Blanchet (BQ) "$28 million in contracts granted to a friend of the Liberal party. They claim that it's because the lands are close to Roxham Road but what we have found out this is simply not true. Instead of giving taxpayer money to Liberal buddies why can't the Prime Minister find a way to decently welcome asylum seekers?"

Immigration detention

Jenny Kwan (NDP) "Canada has put thousands of refugee claimants and migrants in immigration detention in provincial jails even though they have not committed any crimes. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are calling on the Prime Minister to end this abusive practice. British Columbia, Nova Scotia, Alberta and Manitoba have proactively cancelled the immigration detention contracts with CBSA, but this should not just be on provinces. Refugees and migrants are not criminals. Will the Liberals put an end to this odious immigration detention practice and stop putting migrants and asylum seekers in provincial jails?"

Further background on the MPs

• Yves-François Blanchet (BQ) - Beloeil—Chambly, Quebec

  Leader of the Bloc Québécois

• Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) - Lac-Saint-Jean, Quebec
  • Vice Chair:
    • Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration
    • Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development
  • The Member has only brought up questions regarding Roxham Road when it relates to Human rights issues
• René Villemure (BQ) - Trois-Rivières, Quebec
  • Vice Chair:

    Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics

  • His questions during Question Period have focused on contracts that relate to Roxham Road
• Alain Therrien (BQ) - La Prairie, Quebec

  House leader of the Bloc Québécois

• Stéphane Bergeron (BQ) – Montarville, Quebec

  Vice Chair:

  • Special Committee on the Canada–People's Republic of China Relationship
  • Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development
• Pierre Paul-Hus (CPC) - Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, Quebec
  • Conservative Party of Canada's Quebec Lieutenant
  • Member:

    Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates

• Kristina Michaud (BQ) - Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, Quebec
  • Vice Chair:

    Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security

  • Questions from this member have mainly focused on security issues and immigration numbers
• Jenny Kwan (NDP) - Vancouver East, British Columbia
  • Caucus Chair
  • Member:
    • Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration
    • Special Committee on Afghanistan

ETHI summary: October 17, 2022

Name of Committee: Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics (ETHI)
Subject: Study on the Use of Public Funds in Relation to the Roxham Road Crossing
Date and time: Monday, October 17, 2022, 3:30 pm to 5:30 pm
Location: Room 420, Wellington Building, 197 Sparks Street
Report prepared by: Parliamentary Affairs Unit, Canada Border Services Agency

Witnesses

3:30 pm to 4:30 pm

Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC)

• Stéphan Déry, Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Services
• Lorenzo Ieraci, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy, Planning and Communications
• Françoys Bernier, Acting Regional Director General, Quebec Region
• Lyne Roy, Senior Director, Access, Privacy, Transparency and Mail Services
• Teresa Maioni, Team Leader, Access to Information and Privacy

Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA)

• Jonathan Moor, Vice-President, Finance and Corporate Management Branch
• Scott Millar, Vice-President, Strategic Policy Branch
• Dan Proulx, Executive Director, Information Sharing, Access to Information and Chief Privacy Office

4:30 pm to 5:30 pm

As an individual

Pierre Guay, President, Importations Guay Ltd.

Highlights

On October 3, 2022, the Committee adopted a motion to "assess the ethical standards of public office holders related to the awarding of contracts for the reception of refugees and the development of infrastructure to receive asylum seekers in the province of Quebec."

This is the first meeting of three to conduct this study. The committee invited the following witnesses to appear: (1) The Minister of Public Safety; (2) The Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship; (3) Representatives of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; (4) Representatives of PSPC, including: Lyne Roy and Teresa Maioni; (5) CBSA's Dan Proulx, Executive Director, Information Sharing, Access to Information and Chief Privacy Office; and, (6) Pierre Guay, as an individual.

On October 17, 2022, CBSA and PSPC officials appeared for the first hour of the meeting. Pierre Guay, who owns properties in St-Bernard-de-Lacolle, appeared for the second hour.

Follow-ups

There are no follow-ups for the CBSA.

Next steps

The Committee adopted a motion to adjourn the study, therefore no further witnesses are expected to be called to appear on this topic at this time. The next ETHI meeting is scheduled for October 19, 2022 to discuss committee business.

Meeting summary

First panel

During the first hour, PSPC's Stéphan Déry (ADM, Real Property Services) began his opening remarks by stating that PSPC procures goods and services on behalf of departments and agencies throughout government. He also stated that, to date, PSPC has awarded about 30 contracts for goods/services to manage the increase in asylum seekers at the Roxham Road crossing, and that all contracts have been publicly disclosed, including all leases in Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle. However, in accordance with market practice, the specific value of the leases have not been disclosed given the commercially sensitive nature of this information. PSPC has also negotiated several land and services leases in the immediate vicinity of the Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle port of entry, as required by CBSA and Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC). He also stated that the location and requirements for leases are determined by CBSA and IRCC to meet operational requirements. He stated that the majority of these contracts were competitively awarded for an approximate total value of $108.56 million, and the approximate total value of these land and services leases is $28 million.

CBSA's Jonathan Moor (VP, FCMB) opened his remarks by stating that the number of irregular arrivals at Roxham Road has increased, and provided numbers to that effect. He then described the shared mandate between the CBSA and the RCMP at the border. He also described how CBSA processes asylum claims for those who enter in between designated ports of entry, such as Roxham Road. He also described the processing and accommodation infrastructure used to ensure proper screening at the border at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle.

During the first panel, most questions were directed at PSPC officials and related to contracts and lease agreements between the government and M. Pierre Guay.

MP Paul-Hus (CPC) asked how the contracts were negotiated, and how the price could be explained. PSPC responded that prices had been reviewed by an expert team, and that they responded to IRCC and CBSA operational needs when negotiating these contracts. The Member also inquired about the hotel occupancy in Lacolle. PSPC responded that they rent the hotel, but that IRCC manages it.

MP Fergus (LPC) asked to received further details as to how contracts are negotiated. PSPC gave a breakdown of how their officials deal with client needs (IRCC and CBSA) and how they negotiate the contracts. The MP also asked if there was political interference in this process, to which PSPC confirmed that the contracts did not meet the threshold of spending that requires ministerial approval.

MP Villemure (BQ) asked if it was common for an Access to Information and Privacy (ATIP) to require over 200 days to be processed. PSPC responded that it could. The Member also asked if there's a link between the time it takes to process an ATIP and the emergency situation at the border. CBSA responded that there's no correlation between the two, that CBSA received a significant increase in ATIP requests since the pandemic, and that those are processed independently to what is happening at Lacolle. The Member inquired if Roxham Road goes against the Safe Third Country Agreement. CBSA answered that the Agency has a duty to appropriately process people crossing irregularly. When asked if this is a pressing security issue, CBSA responded that it's a preoccupation.

MP Green (NDP) asked if the rationale for ATIP exemptions due to national emergency, in the case of the ATIP involving Mr. Guay, could be shared with the committee. PSPC agreed to provide the documents to the Committee (wording needs to be confirmed against transcript). The members also asked if a public office holder was involved in the contract with Mr. Guay, to which PSPC answered they are not aware. When asked about Mr. Guay's past political donations, PSPC mentioned that political donations are not studied when awarding contracts.

MP Kurek (CPC) inquired about potential interference while awarding the contracts. He also asked about the designation of emergency while awarding contracts.

MP Hepfner (LPC) asked why services needed to be expanded at the border since 2017. CBSA stated that, since 2017, in the case of Roxham Road, it was not possible to process the numbers of asylum claimants at the St-Bernard-de-Lacolle port of entry, and the Agency needed more facilities. CBSA also explained the steps to process claimants.

Second panel

During the second half of the meeting, Pierre Guay (assisted by counsel) opened his remarks by stating he is aware of media articles about the government leases and his company. He addressed his past political donations to both the CPC and LCP and stated that none of these donations were made in exchange for, or expectations to, signing any contracts with the government of the day, or receiving preferential treatment from the government. He mentioned that he is not a member of a political party, and had no link with any politicians when leasing his land. In 2017, he was approached by the government to lease his property near St-Bernard-de-Lacolle to manage thousands of asylum seekers. He made no solicitation to the government and did not consider if this required a bidding process. He stated that he would not provide confidential information, and that this information should be sought and received by the government.

MP Paul-Hus (CPC) asked whom negotiated the contracts with Mr. Guay and how the price was established. He answered that he did not solicit the government, and it was CBSA representatives that came to him at first (border services officers, and officials from Ottawa and Montréal) to see if the land was rentable. He stated the price was examined with his accountant. He added that the land is a commercial area, not a farming zone, and has no municipal services. He also stated that when signing the contracts, he was told they were confidential for immigration and security reasons.

MP Saks (LPC) asked more broadly about Mr. Guay's family history at Lacolle. He stated that the migrant traffic does disturb the local residents. He also stated that in the process of negotiations of lease agreements, he negotiated with only PSPC and the costs were calculated with PSPC officials, not with any public office holder. He stated that he rents his hotel rooms to the government (IRCC) at the summer rate, and in the winter there's a 35% discount, which amounts to about 100$ per day.

MP Villemure (BQ) asked if the hotel he is leasing to the government is empty, and Mr. Guay answered it was full at 75 to 80% capacity. He confirmed that occupancy dropped for a some two weeks when borders were closed due to COVID-19. When pressed on confidential agreements, he mentioned that he signed contract with PSPC and that rates were confidential, however he was not against the government disclosing the rates. When asked is other contracts are currently being negotiated, we stated that nothing was in the works currently.

MP Green (NDP) asked Mr. Guay to describe his facilities in Lacolle. Mr. Guay mentioned that, back in 2017, the RCMP and CBSA were overwhelmed by the flow of irregular migrants, and that something needed to be done.

MP Kurek (CPC) inquired if Mr. Guay had had conversations with MP Brenda Shanahan (LPC; Châteauguay—Lacolle, Quebec) or any other political staff outside PSPC and CBSA officials related to the leasing of properties, which he answered that he did not. He did confirm having met MP Shanahan once. He stated that once the leases were signed, the government wanted everything as soon as possible, because it was an urgent matter at the border due to the number of claimants arriving.

At the end of the meeting, a motion to adjourn the study was carried unanimously. The requested documents will need to be sent to the committee; however, no further witnesses will appear. A brief report will be prepared by the Committee.

Minutes of Proceedings

The Minutes of Proceedings are the official record of the business conducted by the committee at a sitting and can be found on the House of Commons of Canada website: Minutes - ETHI (44-1) - No. 39 - House of Commons of Canada.

CIMM summary: November 18, 2022

Name of Committee: Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration (CIMM)
Subject: Study on the Conditions Faced by Asylum-Seekers
Date and time: November 18, 2022 from 1:03 pm to 3:09 pm
Report prepared by: Parliamentary Affairs, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada

Meeting information

• Meeting No. 42
• Conditions Faced by Asylum-Seekers

Committee members

Bloc Québécois (BQ)

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe (Lac-Saint-Jean, Quebec)

New Democratic Party (NDP)

Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, British Columbia)

Conservative Party of Canada (CPC)

• Tom Kmiec (Calgary Shepard, Alberta)
• Brad Redekopp (Saskatoon West, Saskatchewan)
• Michelle Rempel Garner (Calgary Nose Hill, Alberta)
• Larry Maguire (Brandon—Souris, Manitoba)
• Dane Lloyd (Sturgeon River—Parkland)
• Pierre Paul-Hus (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles)

Liberal Party of Canada (LPC)

• Salma Zahid (Chair) (Scarborough Centre, Ontario)
• Marie-France Lalonde (Orléans, Ontario)
• Shafqat Ali (Brampton Centre, Ontario)
• Sukh Dhaliwal (Surrey—Newton, British Columbia)
• Arielle Kayabaga (London West, Ontario)
• Fayçal El-Khoury (Laval—Les Îles, Quebec)
• Ya'ara Saks (York Centre)

Witnesses present

1:03 pm to 3:09 pm

• Christiane Fox, Deputy Minister
• Scott Harris, Associate Deputy Minister
• Michèle Kingsley, Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations
• Jason Hollmann, Acting Director General, Asylum Policy

2:07 pm to 3:09 pm

Hon. Sean Fraser, P.C., M.P., Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship

Takeaways

• Discussions focused on the STCA in its current state and plans for its modernization as well as processing times, safety and security and refusal rates for asylum claimants
• 19 total undertakings arose from this appearance, with main topics being the STCA (MPs Maguire, Brunelle-Duceppe, Kwan) and Processing for asylum claimants (MPs Brunelle-Duceppe, Kwan, Lloyd). Full list below

Summary

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) Officials and the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, provided two separate opening statements, respectively at 1:03 pm and 2:07 pm

In the first opening remarks, IRCC spoke of 2022 admissions, indicating that they are expected to pass 2021 in most immigration programs, including permanent residency, student visas, refugees, and family reunifications. It highlighted the interdepartmental efforts with the Immigration Refugee Board (IRB), Canadian Border Services Agency (CBSA) and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) to welcome and process the new volumes of irregular migrants. IRCC recognized the challenges posed by the current situation at Roxham road and reiterated how it has taken measures with federal as well as provincial and municipal partners to address the situation.

During the second opening remarks, the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of IRCC noted that there were unprecedented levels of migration worldwide. In Canada, individuals can expect a fair assessment of their claims, during which, they receive the protection of the country. Both the IRB and CBSA work collaboratively with IRCC to ensure that cases are processed as quickly and effectively as possible. The government is also investing new resources in the asylum system to increase capacity and timely processing. IRCC is also working closely with American counterparts to discuss the modernization of the STCA, an important collaboration tool to ensure the orderly processing of border crossings. Supporting asylum-seekers is a shared responsibility and the federal government assists provinces in the delivery of services to asylum seekers. One of these ways is by providing provincial and municipal partners with support for temporary housing mainly through the interim housing assistance program.

Questions and interventions by committee members focused on the following topics:

Safe Third Country Agreement (STCA)

• MP Maguire (CPC) indicated that the United States of America (USA) is also a Safe Third Country where asylum claimants could also remain and enquired whether IRCC had made efforts to amend the STCA so that individuals cannot walk across the border. He further mentioned that the Minister Goodale expressed his intent to negotiate with the government of the USA to amend the STCA in 2018. IRCC agreed to that statement. MP Maguire highlighted that number of irregular border crossings were higher than in 2017. IRCC agreed to that statement, adding that its forecast for both irregular and regular border crossings for 2022 is between 84,000 and 94,000
• MP Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) Enquired about the negotiations with the USA regarding the STCA. He requested what is IRCC expecting in terms of irregular border crossings for 2023. IRCC indicated that this number would be around 50,000
• MP Rempel Garner (CPC) asked whether IRCC had provided advice to the federal government regarding its posture towards the STCA. IRCC indicated that it has been preparing for several situations
• MP Rempel Garner (CPC) asked whether the federal government affirmed that the STCA was constitutional. The Minister indicated that it was their view, as upheld by the recent federal court of appeal decision, however since matters are still before the courts, IRCC will respect the final decision
• MP Rempel Garner (CPC) asked whether the government affirmed the international law stating that asylum seekers should make their claim for asylum in the first safe country they reach. The Minister indicated that we do not want to encourage migrants to take perilous journeys to reach a country, a principle supported by the UNHCR
• MP Ali (LPC) asked what a modernized agreement on the STCA would look like. The Minister indicated that a simple suspension of the STCA would potentially lead to significant number of people making claims in a different way that would exacerbate current challenges
• MP Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) asked why is the federal government is working to modernize the STCA if it says that it is adequate. The Minister indicates that having an agreement that isn't perfect is better than having no agreement at all and that the government should be constantly be looking for ways to improve the quality of the agreements with international partners
• MP Dhaliwal (LPC) asked what would happen with border crossings, should the STCA be suspended. The Minister indicated that Canada would likely see a significant increase in number of individuals coming to Canada illegally

Processing of asylum seekers

• MP Dhaliwal (LPC) enquired whether IRCC had additional comments regarding their opening statements. IRCC spoke of the importance of processing asylum claims in a humane fashion and reiterated the importance of working closely with the USA. IRCC Highlighted the importance of Work Permit issuance for asylum seekers as they wait for their processing. MP Dhaliwal asked for numbers for government's budget towards asylum processing. IRCC indicated that 1.3 billion dollars over 5 years to support the influx of migrants. MP Dhaliwal enquired what were the alternative solutions to integrate failed claimants or undocumented workers in Canada. IRCC indicated that they are actively seeking solutions to process such vulnerable individuals in Canada, naming the Guardian Angel program, providing a permanent residence pathway for such individuals working in patient care
• MP Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) asked what were the delays for work permit issuance. IRCC indicated that the processing times are expected to diminish from 18 months to 1 month total processing time
• MP Kwan (NDP) asked what was the first document refugee claimants were issued after entering Canada. IRCC indicated that this first document is the Acknowledgement of Claim. MP Kwan further enquired at which point after entering Canada their Refugee Protection document. IRCC indicated it was at their first meeting at the IRCC processing office, approximately two weeks after entering. MP Kwan deplored processing times, indicating some refugees may have to wait 12 to 24 months for obtaining this document. IRCC indicated that these delays depend on the specific case, adding that there are several services offered for asylum seekers as soon as they enter Canada, such as housing and support
• MP Lloyd (CPC) enquired if deterring asylum claimants was a priority of this government. IRCC indicated that the ideal situation would be to have asylum claimants coming to official border crossings in Canada
• MP Saks (LPC) enquired as to which measures are available for the vulnerable migrants. IRCC replied that we need to offer housing, access to education and work permits to these individuals to allow them to contribute to the economy
• MP Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) enquired about the policy that would reduce work permit processing from 18 to 1 month and whether IRCC was expecting an increase in number of asylum seekers. IRCC indicated that it was expecting very high numbers for this year
• MP Kwan (NDP) asked what was the processing times for asylum seekers entering illegally in Canada. IRCC indicated that this depends on the process, however IRB would be better placed to answer this information
• MP El-Khoury (LPC) mentioned that a previous witness noted that Canada's processing numbers were high. IRCC agreed and continued by saying this country has a fair and humane system that prioritizes the protection of refugees. IRCC collaborates with other departments and provincial government to create a system that benefits refugees and vulnerable individuals at every step
• MP Rempel Garner (CPC) asked whether the government affirms that asylum seekers who first reach the USA should make a claim in this country, as opposed to seeking to irregularly enter Canada. The Minister noted that even under the STCA, there are unique exceptions and that IRCC is always making a case-by-case assessment on the claims. He however recognized that the principles of the current STCA indicate it would be preferable that asylum seekers made their claim in the first safe country in which they arrive
• MP Rempel Garner (CPC) asked whether the government affirm that economic migrants should apply within Canada via regular migration streams instead of making inland asylum claims. The Minister responded by saying that it's the government's view that people coming for economic reasons should use the economic streams and that Canada promotes regular immigration paths for migrants
• MP Ali (LPC) asked what steps can Canada take to process asylum seekers and move them from temporary to permanent residents. The Minister replied by indicating that IRCC needs to increase its immigration ambitions
• MP Kwan (NDP) asked whether the Minister will consider broadening public policy exemptions to include gender-based claims for other classes of vulnerable people. The Minister replied that confidential conversations were happening with US counterparts but could not comment on it

Roxham Road

• MP Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) asked for the refusal rate for asylum-seekers in Roxham road. He further enquired about the distribution of asylum-seekers throughout Canada's biggest cities, including in Québec. IRCC indicated that about 90% of asylum requests came through Roxham road, and advised that in average, asylum requests would usually be processed in 26 months for the IRB
• MP Saks (LPC) enquired whether closing Roxham road would be a safe solution to stopping irregular border crossing. IRCC indicated that there is a need for a safe system to protect irregular migrants, where the Canadian points of entry are the safest way to process asylum claimants
• MP Brunelle-Duceppe (BQ) mentioned that the IRCC forecast for irregular border crossings for 2023 are inaccurate and mentioned that IRCC could provide more accurate numbers. The Minister pushed back on the assertion that projections were inaccurate based on numbers of people who have crossed in Roxham road to date

Safety and security

• MP Kwan (NDP) stated that the STCA currently places the asylum seekers in dangerous situations, such as human trafficking by allowing them to make asylum claims via irregular border crossings. The Minister replied that he and the MP were in agreement that safer and regular pathways to migration were the desired outcome, but mentioned that the suspension of the STCA would create the potential for more migrants to make the decision to come to Canada
• MP Paul-Hus (CPC) mentioned that Canada already has some set immigration targets, however the immigration route via Roxham road leads to more precarious situations for migrants, where rejected migrants get rejected get in a further fragilized situation. The Minister replied that individuals asylum claims are considered on a case-by-case basis, where individuals qualifying will be granted asylum
• MP Brunelle-Duceppe asked about smugglers asking exorbitant prices to cross from the USA to Canada and whether IRCC was having discussions with this country regarding the matter. The Minister advised that monitoring this situation was part of the discussion regarding the modernization of the STCA
• MP Redekopp (CPC) asked what is the government are doing to discourage or prevent activities taking advantage of vulnerable asylum seekers. The Minister mentioned that IRCC is sharing good information with the USA or international partners of what is happening within their borders
• MP Rempel Garner (CPC) asked if the federal government affirms that Canada's obligation to provide effective protection and to ensure protection is provided in countries to which Canada transfers refugees is being met. The Minister indicated that the USA does indeed meet the standard to be a safe country under the STCA

Other

MP Paul-Hus (CPC) asked how many individuals are currently sought by the CBSA or have disappeared in Canada. The Minister undertook to provide numbers on individuals who made a failed asylum claim and are still within Canada, noting that CBSA does not track voluntary exits from Canada.

Follow-ups (To be checked against transcript. Official tasking to follow.)

• CIMM 42.1 provide any IRCC-issued statements or press releases from the past 12 months that unequivocally states that according to the STCA, individuals in the USA should file an asylum claim there rather than illegally cross the Canadian border
• CIMM 42.2 find whether IRCC has reports or analyses on which sections of the STCA would be needed to amend it so that individuals would be banned from walking across the Canadian border
• CIMM 42.3 provide any memos, documents or reports that IRCC conducted to determine the flow of irregular migration after efforts to encourage other countries to use regular border crossing
• CIMM 42.4 provide all evidence of IRCC monitoring media and relevant information regarding irregular border crossings
• CIMM 42.5 provide refusal rates for migrants via Roxham road
• CIMM 42.6 provide the distribution of asylum-seekers throughout Canada's biggest cities, including in Québec
• CIMM 42.7 provide the steps to process asylum requests for migrants arriving from the USA prior to 2004 and the STCA
• CIMM 42.8 provide information on the current processing time to obtain the Entry for Further Processing document
• CIMM 42.9 provide numbers on how much money is dedicated on reducing the IRB wait times
• CIMM 42.10 provide information on additional resources put towards reducing asylum claim processing times as well as how many full-time equivalents have been hired to reduce the processing times
• CIMM 42.11 provide how many meetings have occurred since 2019 on the modernization of the STCA
• CIMM 42.12 provide the processing timelines for asylum seekers entering illegally in Canada
• CIMM 42.13 provide numbers on which are the top countries of origin from which asylum seekers have had their claim refused
• CIMM 42.14 provide numbers on rejection on the basis of gender-based claims
• CIMM 42.15 provide numbers on how many individuals have been refused with applications from countries that are deemed unsafe, and the list of these countries
• CIMM 42.16 provide numbers on how many individuals from the five-eyes countries have made an asylum request and have been refused
• CIMM 42.17 provide which advice IRCC gave to the Government regarding the modernizing of the STCA
• CIMM 42.18 provide the total number of persons making inland asylum claims after irregularly entering Canada since November 2015 that have been removed from Canada after having their claims denied, while breaking down the decision by category of inadmissibility and country of origin
• CIMM 42.19 reach out to CBSA to obtain the number of individuals who made a failed asylum claim and are still within Canada

CIMM committee forward business

The committee will meet next on Tuesday, November 22, 2022 to continue collecting testimony from on the Conditions faced by Asylum Seekers study.